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Matt (00:00):

Today's episode of The Sensory Friendly Solutions podcast on the Unsettled Media Podcast Network is

brought to you by Sensory Friendly Solutions. Discover sensory friendly solutions for daily life. To learn

more head to sensoryfriendly.net.


Speaker 5 (00:22):

Unsettled.


Matt (00:24):

Hello listeners and welcome to episode 10 of The Sensory Friendly Solutions podcast. The season finale.

The finale of season one. It's hard to believe that we're at the end of our first season. If you're just

joining us, welcome. If you've been with us the entire time, we thank you. We know you've been there

for us the same way that we've been there for you each week. A little bit of advanced news, we won't

have an innovation segment at the end of this episode. Christel and I who you know very well will be

getting on the microphone's towards the end of this conversation for a review. We want to think about

what we've heard. We want to leave you with some parting gratitude, and we want to set the stage for

what's coming next. For the season finale of episode one we had a trialogue. I was lucky enough to

speak to two really interesting ladies who are delving into the world of sensory friendly solutions in their

own right in their private practice in their professional life.


Matt (01:45):

The first is Dr. Peggy Bown. She is a dentist in St. John, New Brunswick, originally from Newfoundland,

and is a graduate of dentistry from Dalhousie University. Initially in a group practice, Dr. Bown later

opened her new modern and fully digital clinic in St. John, New Brunswick in 2015, which she talks about

in this episode. Her passion is creating the ultimate patient experience and performing interdisciplinary

treatment planning using digital technology including iTero scanners, the Invisalign system and Digital

Smile Design. Dr. Bown's passion for the patient experience stems from a childhood exposure to

dentistry where patients were made to feel special, educated and included in the treatment process.

This is completely clear throughout the course of this episode that patient focused design, including

sensory friendly solutions is precisely what Dr. Bown is about.


Matt (02:49):

Our second guest was Laura Caswell. Laura came to us from Halifax, Nova Scotia. She's a performer,

director, choreographer, cabaret artist, producer and arts educator at the Neptune Theater. Born and

raised in Ottawa, she's performed all over Canada, trained in New York and London, earning a masters in

performance. She's also studied puppetry, dance, comedy and singing extensively and loves to explore

different types of theater. Now, given our circumstances, adding Zoom teaching and facilitation to that

list. She's eager to learn and grow with different communities and has been the director of education at

Neptune since 2017. This also became completely clear throughout the course of this episode, we

learned about relaxed performances. How to make performances of all kinds sensory friendly and

accessible to all. Thank you to Dr. Bown. Thank you to Laura Caswell. Thank you to you the listener for

being with us this far. This is episode 10 of The Sensory Friendly Solutions podcast.


Matt (04:12):


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Hello listeners and welcome back to the very first segment of the season finale of The Sensory Friendly

Solutions podcast. It's hard to believe we're 10 episodes in on this journey. We've heard so much from

industry experts, from those with lived experience, from entrepreneurs and it's excellent to have

brought in two guests for the first segment of this podcast. Peggy, I'm going to get you to introduce

yourself first. For those listening who don't know you, tell us a little bit about yourself.


Peggy Bown (04:49):

Okay. Well, thank you Matt. My name is Peggy Bown and I am a general and cosmetic dentist in St. John,

New Brunswick. I have been practicing for almost 20 years and I have my own, in the last five years, a

new modern patient experience friendly oriented dental practice here in St. John. My vision for that

practice was to make it all about the patient experience. And maybe that's partly how Sensory Friendly

Solutions kind of found me too because I really know how important it is and how difficult and how

much anxiety dentistry kind of brings with it. So being a patient myself at times or as a child I

remembered that and I wanted to make this practice all about helping patients forget about the fact

that they were in a dental clinic. So the clinic itself is all about that. And there's a lot of things we do of

course that kind of help make sure that that becomes a reality for our patients. So we do get a lot of

responses that people do feel that they don't feel like they're in a dental clinic and that warms my heart

because that's, again, my main goal. Not to do just good dentistry but to do it with the patient

experience in mind.


Peggy Bown (06:08):

So yeah. So that's what I do. I also ... I'm a mom of two girls and I love all kinds of things including I have

a new passion I guess for marketing and social media. So I also do lecturing for a Align Tech and also

another company where we talk about how businesses can promote themselves and market in a way

that is authentic and it's really exciting for me. So I have lots of thing that I love to do but dentistry is my

truest, biggest passion for sure.


Matt (06:47):

I love how you described it as the patient experience. In many ways that's been exactly what this

podcast has been about. And we're going to really unpack that in this episode. But before we do that, I

feel almost an obligation to do a COVID check in. We've interviewed people all over the world. I know

I'm also on the east coast of Canada right now and we fared pretty well throughout the course of this

thing but it strikes me that dentistry ... I mean, a completely hands on industry. Can you talk us a little

bit through your COVID journey? What's it been like since March of this year?


Peggy Bown (07:26):

Well, the first few weeks was almost denial, although I was one of the first clinics to close even before

asked to. I just couldn't have imagined it and I knew as we got into it how much it was going to change

everything. Honestly I think maybe April was a bit of a blur. I was quite stressed. I did however just dig

deep and realize I had a team to lead and I had to get it together. So what I did is I started having weekly

meetings with my team even though everybody was really technically not working. Tried to stick

together and tried to find ways that we could still reach out to our patients and make them feel like they

were there. I know a lot of offices, they just kind of dropped the ropes and just waited until things got

back up but no patient of ours could honestly say that. I really wanted to make sure the patients still felt

cared for. We actually even did as a fun sort of hygiene drive if you will, we created these little hygiene

kits and we did door drops in a COVID friendly way. We left a little note. We had all signed it. And


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anybody who was missing their hygiene appointment we had done little door drops. And it was a little

note saying, we miss you and then we can't wait to see you again.


Peggy Bown (08:48):

So we did things like that as a team and did keep up with the social media. It gave me a lot of time to

look at my systems and really take a deep breath and go, "Okay, what would I change? I've got the time

right now. What would I change? What are the systems? What are the things I would do differently

when I do open? How do I want my future to look?" And so I took that time, first to be stressed for a few

weeks and then to just dig deep, connect with my team and then come up with strategies and ways that

I was going to come back stronger, better than ever. In fact, we created a new mission statement in that

May. And just all about together as a team, stronger, better than ever. We wanted that to be the

message from internally, from how we felt about how we were going to come back, and also we wanted

our patients to know we cared. So I can honestly say my clinic, although of course production is down,

costs are up, very significantly, the connection and the strength and the energy of the team has never

been better in five years then I've ever seen it. And I think, given the situation, we're breaking records in

other ways.


Peggy Bown (09:59):

So I'm quite proud. A lot of work. Don't get me wrong. But just knowing that if you've got the right

people around you and you're willing to kind of get it together and ask questions ... I've also received

help from outside business coaches and paid for that. Because I'm like look, I think I need to be better

here. I think we can be better and we're going to have to change. So let's find out what we can do. So

we've actually implemented things like virtual monitoring of our Invisalign patients. We have different

systems and different ways that we communicate with our patients now than we did before. Our

patients are almost now ... Well, we were pretty paperless before but now we're completely paperless.

So we have all kinds of cool things that patients I think actually appreciate. And if COVID hadn't

happened, if this pandemic hadn't happened, I would never be where I am. And I'm in some ways very

thankful for that.


Matt (11:01):

Laura, let's come up to you. As our second panelist do you mind introducing yourself and tell us where

we're finding you and where you are now in your life?


Laura Caswell (11:10):

Yeah. Well, where am I in my life? No. I'm Laura Caswell and I am in Halifax, Nova Scotia and I'm the

director of education at Neptune Theater which is the regional theater here in Nova Scotia down on

Argyle street. Right downtown Halifax. And yeah, I loved listening to what Peggy had to say because I

can relate to a lot of her discoveries through the COVID times. But my relation to sensory friendly and

relaxed performance is that I started my job here in 2017 and that was at a time when I will say sensory

friendly performances and relaxed performances were gaining ground and people were starting to think

about them here in Canada. I think prior to that it had mostly been in the UK and in Europe and

someone from Autism Nova Scotia approached me to let me know that this was something. And I will

admit, I didn't really know what that entailed. And I went to my general manager at the time. I don't

even think Jeremy Webb was the artistic director yet and I said, "Is this something we want to do?" And

she said, "Yes, I think so." And with that I suddenly found myself becoming the rep for relaxed

performances here at The Neptune Theater as part of my job here as director of education.


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Laura Caswell (12:29):

So it's been quite a journey for me understanding and educating myself and attending trainings and if

we have time I can speak about ... I was selected to go to the Access Activator program for the British

Council and Tangled Arts and it was in Toronto in February. End of February. And that was one of the

last, I'll say big things, that I did before COVID hit. I was flown to Toronto. I was there for a week. And

that was when things were just starting. At lunch we couldn't share food. We all had to have wrapped

sandwiches. It was all starting. Yeah, so I have this wealth of knowledge that I haven't yet had a chance

to implement because our theater did shut down as far as doing productions starting on Friday the 13th,

March 13th. But I will say we are planning to do A Christmas Carol beginning next week here at the

Neptune Theater so we'll see how that goes.


Matt (13:28):

And will that be in front of a live audience?


Laura Caswell (13:29):

That is intended to be in front of a live audience. We have also put that show along with some other

content online and have digital showing as well so that you have the option that works for you. And

again, as far as making these situations sensory friendly and a relaxed performance ... I have to say, and

maybe this has come up in some of your other podcasts, but it's really interesting to me because COVID

friendly is inherently relaxed performance friendly. It's so interesting. Because people are like, "What?

We have reduced audiences and we have to have more people on deck and we have to have clear

signage and arrows and we have to send videos so people know how their day's going to go. And we

have to give extra communication." And I'm just like, "Yeah, that's what relaxed performances are

basically." So I just find it interesting, the link between accessibility in times of general health and safety.

Anyway, those are my big thoughts. But one more time, I have to say Peggy's ... The thing that she said

that I can relate to is costs are up, production is down but still we got this great team and everyone's

dreaming big and being really creative.


Laura Caswell (14:46):

And I love she also said, thinking about what we can do versus what we can't do. That's what we've

really been working on here.


Matt (14:55):

So you get home from Toronto end of February, the ominous March 13th, Friday the 13th date hits, how

did your work evolve from there? Is there that little period of fear and stress as Peggy alluded to that we

all felt and then it's action time or how does that evolve?


Laura Caswell (15:12):

Well, I don't think it's ended Matt. But for me ... And again, in my job the reason that was extra ... That

weekend was very, I would even say traumatic if I look back because we were supposed to start March

break camp on the 16th, on the Monday. So we had all these kids and parents lined up and on the Friday

it seemed like camps were still going to be okay. It really did. I know the chief medical officer here and I

messaged him directly to find out how what he was thinking and he was at that time still believing things

were okay. And then by the Sunday it was like no, we're shut down. So we had to call all these families.

And it was very scary. All the news hitting us all at the same time. And then in May we decided here we


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would do our summer camps in person so starting in April and May I was making documents and

researching and figuring out what our safety protocols would be so that we could have ... We ended up

having about 400 students through in person this summer. Again, compared to some of the rest of the

country, some things were kind of "normal" for me here but with extra protocols in place.


Matt (16:33):

So throughout the course of the podcast ... And we're going to stay with you Laura before coming back

down to Peggy. There's been some interesting themes when you interview experts in the field, when

you interview people with lived experience. Time and time again, thematically things come up. But

whether we have sensory processing issues or not, we all feel a sense of overload right now or a sense

of stress and you both alluded to that. And Laura, we're going to stay with you for this. But we point out

this stat to all of our guests. And I would just ask for a little bit of reflection. We're putting people on the

spot here but we're all human, we're all going through 2020 together. The stat is this. So as of June this

year the word sensory overload was being searched over 40,000 times a month on Google. And that

might not seem like a very big number but it's a trend increase of 50% from June of 2019. I mean we're

all feeling this. Just as a person Laura, what are we all going though right now?


Laura Caswell (17:34):

It's so hard for me to speak for others. I know that I've had a great deal of a hard time shutting off. And I

don't know if it's a hero complex or workaholic complex. I also will tell the world here, I'm single and it's

just me and me and dog. So I think the only thing I've had to get me through this is work. And the fear

that if I stop it too will go away is ... It's there. I know that for myself. But then also I find myself feeling

this pressure to stay on top of everything because I'm also a performer and a creator. And as soon as

someone posts a video of this amazing song and dance that they recorded and put ... Part of me goes,

"Oh my gosh, why didn't I do something like that? I have to create a video too." And then it's just like

this constant ... It never stops. The list only seems to get longer. And then I doubt I've ever used screen

time and multiple screens. I find myself sitting there. I'm on my computer, I have the latest news

broadcast on my phone, and my tablet's on the other side where I can write my next list. It's a lot.


Laura Caswell (18:49):

Thanks for bringing this up because I have to remind myself to go for nice long walks with my lovely dog

Bella to get in nature and just breathe. Breathe safely.


Matt (19:02):

Yeah, absolutely. The more we talk about it, it only benefits the people listening because we're going

through this globally. We interviewed a big time author in the autism space from the UK and they were

about to go into full lockdown until December where we're really blessed on the east coast of Canada

but we're going through this as a people right now. And so this search trend is something that isn't going

away any time soon. And Peggy, I'm wondering if you piggyback off of that. I know from the work you've

done on social media and the work you're doing with your patients, you'll have some good ideas about

what we're all experiencing right now.


Peggy Bown (19:42):

Yeah. Really a good point exactly like Laura said. I have been much more inundated with communication

with all the ways and the Zoom calls and all the things that we're doing. I actually now ... Like she said,

she walks her dog. I have pretty much always taken my phone with me on any walks because I like my


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music and all that. But now I just tend to just go out and I'm like, I don't need any of that. I just want to

have peace.


Matt (20:13):

Exactly.


Peggy Bown (20:14):

Yeah. It's really interesting. I think though that one of the things that we want to do or for me, like I

want to do when my patients come here for example, is I want them to feel like they're in a space that is

very safe and we are considering, again, their sensory experience. And again, I'm just making sure I'm

following off where you're going with that. But I want to make sure that I'm utilizing all the technology

that I can for them but yet when they come in I don't want them to feel like there's so much going on.

Like they have a space where it is somewhat more quiet and protected from all the craziness that's

going on outside. Specifically though, do you have a specific question about how it pertains to my clinic

or [crosstalk 00:21:14]-


Matt (21:14):

Yeah. The exact lead in Peggy ... And thank you for doing that. The exact lead in to that is, given that this

is what we're experiencing, given that you're seeing patients who are experiencing this no doubt, we do

want to introduce your sensory friendly journey I would say. How did you come to consider this as a big

part of your practice going forward? Because I've been to the dentist lately and I love my dentist but it

strikes me that you're probably ahead of the curve here. Am I right?


Peggy Bown (21:46):

I mean maybe. I really don't pay a lot attention. I do know a lot of dentists aren't always adopting the

latest technology. Sometimes they look at the technology that they can adopt or that they could invest

in as strictly of like what is it going to give me as dollars and cents? Like what is the ROI on that

technology? But for me ... And I'm going to talk about one specific type of technology here in a second.

But I've seen a much different angle on that and it's that the technology isn't always about how can I

profit directly from that? It's how can I create a better experience for the patient? How can I wow the

patient in a way that they will then go and talk about my clinic and then refer me other patients who do

want to do other work. Because they've never experienced anything like it. So it's like an indirect

benefit. But it comes down to me for me, just a quick backtrack to when I was a little girl. I'd always see

the dentist regularly and my mom would bring me in. No one would ever talk to me. I was always a little

bit afraid. But then my mom brought me to a new dentist when I was about 13 years old and that

experience changed my life. It helped me to decide I wanted to become a dentist.


Peggy Bown (23:03):

And what that dentist did was not care about the fact that he had a filling to do that day on me. It was

that he cared about that I understood what was going to happen and that I felt safe in that

environment. So he explained everything. I really do remember this honestly. Explaining how it was

going to feel and how I was going to feel and why this was happening and really directly continued to

care about my emotions and my understanding. So education and how you make that patient feel from

an emotional standpoint became that pivotal thing for me that I was like, when I become a dentist ...

Which I walked out of his office that day telling my mom I would become a dentist. That I would do that

for my patients. And so some of the technologies that I've adapted and things I do ... Well, just the little


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things that I say and do for my patients are one thing. But there's a recent technology that a lot clinics

could be adopting and it's called ... It's like a digital impression technique. So if anybody remembers

having braces or having any sort of impressions growing up with this poofy material in their mouth. The

dentist may be good at taking those impressions but did the patient have a good experience?


Peggy Bown (24:18):

So we do everything as digitally as possible and then with that digital file we're not only able to create

products for the patient. It could be a crown, it could be Invisalign, it could be a sports guard or a night

guard. But it can also be then used to educate my patients. So when I take the time to use it to educate

the patients, they start to relax because they become a part of the experience and they become a part

of understanding what's going on. So they don't feel like I'm talking over them or trying to sell them

something. They help make decisions or we kind of co diagnose using it. So the whole experience is like

education first and then once people understand, it takes away the fear. And again, dentistry is just so

anxiety ridden I really have a major ... I think I have a really good advantage when it comes to that

because anybody who's adopting this is going to have ... Their patients are going to say, "Wow, I've

never had that done before. I never understood it before. I didn't realize dentistry could do that." I want

to change how people feel about dentistry so it's part of my bigger why.


Peggy Bown (25:30):

Making it sensory friendly, it just happens to fall in there. I didn't realize I was doing that. It was just

because of a childhood mission that I kind of got started on basically.


Matt (25:42):

For other medical professionals listening who are thinking about walking this sensory friendly road, I'm

hearing that adopting technology is certainly important but also the importance of setting that

emotional setting for the patient and like you said, crafting that patient experience.


Peggy Bown (25:58):

Oh yeah. In the words you say. Preparing them for what you're about to do. Tell, show, do especially for

children. Offering them a blanket. Offering them to turn off the lights. We offer music. It could be having

certain smells in the clinic or making sure those smells don't enter the clinic. So certain dental materials

historically will create a memory or emotional response for patients that really creates anxiety. So we

don't have certain products in this clinic because of those smells. Because I know that that will trigger an

emotional response. So I'm very careful to think about what it's like to be a patient. So walking through

the clinic, what do I see? What do I hear? What kind of smells? Is the lighting good? Is this a bright open

space? Everything. From the design details of my clinic to how I even talk to my patients. I tell them

before I'm going to lay them back. I make sure they're comfortable throughout the appointment. These

are little things but they're big things.


Matt (27:07):

Yeah. No doubt. Thank you so much Peggy. And Laura we want to come up to you to talk about your

sensory friendly journey as well. And you are more than welcome to volunteer a personal experience if

you wish. But professionally, I know our audience is going to be interested in Tangled Art + Disability.

And then also I'm curious and our listeners will be curious about what a sensory friendly performance

actually looks like. So start from anywhere and unpack it.


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Laura Caswell (27:33):

Right. Well, I think I already ... As I said earlier, I kind of, I'll just say, fell into learning and growing with

relaxed performance and sensory friendly performances here at Neptune. Tangled Arts as I talked about

earlier is an amazing company out of Toronto who focuses in all kinds of different accessible

performances. And they brought us together with The British Council. As I said, the people all over

Canada. Now there's about 40 of us who are kind of with the name Access Activators who have this

wealth of knowledge. And now we have to set out and train. Again, I think all of us got at a bit of a

standstill with COVID. This is one frustration, I'm going to be candid, that I do have about accessible

programming in theater right now is that it all came to a standstill and I don't think just here. And one of

the main reasons is financial. And it's going to take a while to get that going again. And I find myself ... I

know I'm not I'm not alone. Not fighting for it but I find myself putting up a hand and going, what about

this, what about this?


Laura Caswell (28:38):

And the new challenge will be how to ... Now that lots of theater experiences are digital, how do we

make sure that is accessible to everyone as well? So that's something we're really working on. I know I'm

rambling here. As far as shows here, our first show that was a relaxed performance here was

Shakespeare in Love, which that whole development of how we were going to deliver that I did with my

right hand person, Julia Topple, and with the assistance of Autism Nova Scotia. And we came up with

our visual stories and we got our signage, we trained our staff. And it went really well. And then cut to

Christmas, it was Cinderella and that was way bigger. Bigger audience, bigger experience and it was

really great. The show itself was not just closed to different ... It was open to the public but they were

notified that it was a relaxed performance. And the most fun thing is that we don't do applause during

those shows. We shake our hands like fun jazz hands or a gentle snap. The fun thing was watching and

talking to the artists after the show. Talking to the actors and the stage managers and the way the whole

thing hit them all differently.


Laura Caswell (29:55):

Lots of the actors find that when they do these relaxed performances they kind of get a little back to like

the natural storytelling elements because it's not all about the big lights and the big loud bangs in our

big musicals. It's back to the core story. And even though you know the audience wants to scream, just

watching these shaking hands, it just feeds a different energy. So that's something I'll really take away. I

do have to share also, when we did Color Purple there was a group of adults, many of them had never

been to our theater before. And this one person was at the back and when they were singing, they could

not sit still. And they were just dancing in their seats just out of joy and energy and I love that person

could come to the theater, enjoy that show, not be told to be quiet, not be told to sit still. That to me

was why we do it. Everyone should be able to enjoy a night at the theater. Everyone should. So that's

make big takeaways. And again, I think that this is going to continue to grow.


Laura Caswell (31:04):

Again, Peggy was talking about all the digital stuff. I'm finding that our digital videos and our visual

stories, all of those things are going to become a part of our whole theater experience for everyone

from now on. And it is education and it is making sure everyone feels safe. And it is making sure

everyone feels comfortable. So I think maybe we won't have to have as many "special nights". That

theater will actually just be and hopefully accessible to people.


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Matt (31:36):

Laura, we're going to stay with you. You've both been so generous with your time. But there is one last

question that our audience really loves. And we zone in on you a little bit. You alluded to this early on in

our COVID check in, but I'm very curious about strategies. This is called the Sensory Friendly Solutions

podcast. The final question. What are your strategies to reduce the noise of the current era? It's a noisy

time. It's a loud time. Spill the beans. Are you a yogi? Do you go for runs? What do you do to reduce the

noise?


Laura Caswell (32:12):

I'm going to be really candid, I'm not doing a good job of that. These days it's often a beer and some

Doritos. I'm trying to make a conscious effort to be more ... I used to do yoga all the time. I think now I'm

at a point where I'm almost scared to start these things like dance and yoga that have meant so much to

me because I'll be so sad and scared of where I've ended up right now after not doing a lot of self care.

So I wish I had more motivational knowledge. Netflix. But I do-


Matt (32:53):

Well Laura, I'll fill you in.


Laura Caswell (32:55):

You what?


Matt (32:57):

I'll fill you in. A lot of guests think that I wouldn't like that answer or that the audience wouldn't like that

answer. But I actually love that answer because it's so relatable. As Peggy alluded to, there's people who

have doubled down on their strengths during this and that's amazing. There's also people who have felt

unable to do so for one reason or another. And so to answer straight up like that and candidly, I thank

you for it.


Laura Caswell (33:24):

No problem. That's what I'm here for.


Matt (33:28):

Peggy, we're going to end with you. Same question. I know you have some strategies. I can tell already.

What are your strategies to reduce the noise of the current era?


Peggy Bown (33:39):

Well, it's great. Thank you Laura for being so candid because I don't know anyone honestly who isn't

struggling to some degree. Especially now as we go into this second wave and it's getting darker and it's

been hard. I've been taking more vitamin D than ever honestly. But I think one of the things that has

helped me through is just remembering what my good habits are and then trying to make that promise

to myself. Like on Sunday's I will sit down and say okay, what do I really want to accomplish this week?

And I do have a fairly strict morning routine that I ... Again, not perfect. We're all guilty of certainly not

meeting all our commitments for the week. But the old Peggy would have probably given herself a guilt

trip about that. Because I am a bit of an overachiever. I'm like one of these super highly energy driven

high goal setting type of people. But now after the last few months I've particularly been kind of looking


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into more like mediation. Just things like learning just how to be okay with myself and just okay with

maybe ... Okay, you didn't do that today. How would you treat your friend if she said to you, "I can't

believe I missed my workout this morning."? Would you say, "Oh yeah, I can't believe you did that."?

You would never say that.


Peggy Bown (35:14):

So I'm being a little bit more self ... More self care. A little bit more patient with myself. And just being

happy with what I can do in a day. So I do really do have a pretty good morning routine. I walk my dog

and workout and I try these things. But I certainly slip and I have those evenings where I'll just dive into

a bag of chips and-


Laura Caswell (35:37):

Yes.


Peggy Bown (35:39):

I completely agree. Or just scroll through Facebook with the America's Got Talent videos. Honestly. So

I'm probably a bit of both. I think my habits though are getting me through. I do have this team to lead

that I feel very high responsibility to make them feel that I'm taking care of them. So I feel like if I don't

take care of myself first then I won't be able to do that and that's a bigger why. That would be worse. I'd

rather not let them down. I'd be okay with letting myself down before I would let them down. So

because I have to get up and I have to show up with that, I try to put a lot of energy into my routine.


Peggy Bown (36:23):

But if I don't make it and I don't ... Again, this morning, I didn't get there. I walked my dog, I didn't get

my workout. I didn't give myself a hard time. The old Peggy would have done that for sure.


Matt (36:35):

We're all in this together. It's a strange time but you've both been so generous. Thank you so much for

being on the season finale of The Sensory Friendly Solutions podcast.


Laura Caswell (36:45):

Thanks Matt.


Peggy Bown (36:45):

Thank you for having me. Thank you. Thanks Laura.


Laura Caswell (36:47):

You too. Nice to meet you.


Peggy Bown (36:49):

Yeah, you too.


Matt (36:51):

You're very welcome. Both of you take care.


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